Origin of the "Plex Dance"


#1

I've been trying to find the earliest reports of problems in Plex that led to the 'Plex Dance' workaround. There seem to be literally dozens of reports, and a wide variety of symptoms that are described. It's difficult to sift through them all.

I think Plex should be highly embarrassed by a problem that has been so widely reported that the workaround for it has acquired a name. I know Plex doesn't like to discuss their plans, but I'd sure like to know if anyone at Plex is at all concerned about this issue.


#2

This is the earliest post I know of, it's the one that gets referred to by a fair few Ninja's.

https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/comment/908454/#Comment_908454


#3

To be honest i had already figured out the work around prior too been aware of the "Dance". It some what makes sense in a program that keeps UI structure data.

Does it not?


#4

I agree with @Gdr56

It does make sense to me and in no way does it seem like a bug as such.

If anything is embarrassing it's the people tossing this term around and making this concept seem more extravagant than it really is.


#5

@Gdr56 said:
To be honest i had already figured out the work around prior too been aware of the "Dance". It some what makes sense in a program that keeps UI structure data.

Does it not?

No, it does not. If I edit the embedded tags in my music files, then tell Plex to "update the library", Plex should be able to recognize the changes in the embedded tags and update its internal info without having to:
1) move the files out of the Plex-monitored folders,
2) Update the library so Plex removes the album,
3) empty trash,
4) clean bundles,
5) move the files back into the monitored folders, and
6) update the library again so Plex will add it back as if it were a new addition, all because I made a change to a tag.

There's no way this is not a bug - it's a function that has not worked for a very long time.


#6

@ntrevena said:
This is the earliest post I know of, it's the one that gets referred to by a fair few Ninja's.

https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/comment/908454/#Comment_908454

That's the best explanation of the Plex Dance workaround, but it's far from the first thread with a problem that the Dance applies to.


#7

@beckfield said:

@Gdr56 said:
To be honest i had already figured out the work around prior too been aware of the "Dance". It some what makes sense in a program that keeps UI structure data.

Does it not?

No, it does not. If I edit the embedded tags in my music files, then tell Plex to "update the library", Plex should be able to recognize the changes in the embedded tags and update its internal info without having to:
1) move the files out of the Plex-monitored folders,
2) Update the library so Plex removes the album,
3) empty trash,
4) clean bundles,
5) move the files back into the monitored folders, and
6) update the library again so Plex will add it back as if it were a new addition, all because I made a change to a tag.

There's no way this is not a bug - it's a function that has not worked for a very long time.

I disagree
Your example explains that you have changed Data on your music files, Digital files. When adding this to a software program that catalogues, arranges, allows filters, allow graphics, allows play lists,allows UI with lyrics etc.
This would mean within the software /PMS it would be complexly threaded to achieve the desired results.

So when you do the** Plex Dance**, your uninstalling the digital album, then re-installing the correct Album. All the threads are connected correctly and it should work correctly.
By just changing a part, some threads may not be connected correctly and may not work.

As for changing data in a Library within PMS your entering into a connected field within the software. Doing it externally/ then hoping it will port correctly may not achieve the same result.

What is one of the steps in resolving a software issue, uninstall and re-install


#8

First thing, I've been using the term "update" when I should be using "refresh." But aside from that, there is no getting around the fact that the Plex Dance is a workaround for a feature in Plex that does not work as it was intended.

The Refresh command is intended to (quoting from the online Help) "... cause new metadata to be fetched even for items that are already matched."

It is easily demonstrable that this does not happen when the Refresh command is kicked off. The workaround? Plex Dance.

This. Is. A. Bug.

Uninstalling/reinstalling is a workaround, too. Aside from installing a new version of software, that should never be necessary for properly functioning software.


#9

@beckfield said:
First thing, I've been using the term "update" when I should be using "refresh." But aside from that, there is no getting around the fact that the Plex Dance is a workaround for a feature in Plex that does not work as it was intended.

The Refresh command is intended to (quoting from the online Help) "...l cause new metadata to be fetched even for items that are already matched."

It is easily demonstrable that this does not happen when the Refresh command is kicked off. The workaround? Plex Dance.

This. Is. A. Bug.

Uninstalling/reinstalling is a workaround, too. Aside from installing a new version of software, that should never be necessary for properly functioning software.

Ok, you have little understanding of software and it's complexity. All software will have issues when importing one to another

The Dance is a way of ripping out all and returning a repaired/revised version.

Look what you suggesting can be done but will the software be so affordable.

Major software updates are obviously a re- install not an update or patch. There is a lot to be said for a clean install.

Having said that I understand the Dance frustrations, i would rather be assured it's been updated correctly than deal with corruption on a regular basis.


#10

@Gdr56 said:
Ok, you have little understanding of software and it's complexity. All software will have issues when importing one to another

The Dance is a workaround for a feature that does not perform its stated purpose. If you don't see that as a bug, then it's you who doesn't understand software.

Major software updates are obviously a re- install not an update or patch. There is a lot to be said for a clean install.
Which is why I excepted it from my statement.


#11

@beckfield said:

@Gdr56 said:
Ok, you have little understanding of software and it's complexity. All software will have issues when importing one to another

The Dance is a workaround for a feature that does not perform its stated purpose. If you don't see that as a bug, then it's you who doesn't understand software.

Major software updates are obviously a re- install not an update or patch. There is a lot to be said for a clean install.
Which is why I excepted it from my statement.

So you would accept a step cost to always keep a feature extremely user friendly. Rather than a simple staged fix. Writing software like you suggest will be expensive and open even more possible bugs.

The Dance process is not unusual, but it definitely eliminates fractured /corrupted data .So really what your asking Plex Dev's is for a system wide integrity function. Good luck, I'm very happy with current package. If it's developed and works I will also be very happy. Lets hope it's not at a premium to all users.


#12

@Gdr56 said:
So you would accept a step cost to always keep a feature extremely user friendly. Rather than a simple staged fix. Writing software like you suggest will be expensive and open even more possible bugs.
I haven't told anyone how to fix it. I, and many others, have simply pointed out a function that doesn't work the way it is supposed to. I don't really understand why you can't see that.


#13

@beckfield

Think about it though, it definitely seems intended from Plex side, probably because of the things @Gdr56 are saying. Otherwise they would have "fixed" this ages ago.

Also, it kind of works already, in the sense that if you change the cover art in your album (locally in the files themselves), and then refresh in Plex, it does change the cover there. Same if you put a local subtitle next to your movie. And also if you put local music extras in place. etc.

I guess the only thing it does not work for is naming? Like track titles and such. And don't get me wrong, I hate that. But that's a whole different beast from cover art and such, because so much is tied to the track titles in Plex.

I would love for it to work the way you want it (I tinker a lot with my music), but it is probably not a bug, and saying Plex should be "embarrassed" because people who doesn't understand how software works uses a random term like that, is overly dramatic.


#14

From conversations with members of the Team, this is a bug. They haven't been able to track it down, and every time they try something to fix it, it seems other portions of the agents appear to get broken.

This is, and has always been called a bug, for the 2+ years @beckfield and I have been around....


#15

@d2freak said:

I would love for it to work the way you want it (I tinker a lot with my music), but it is probably not a bug, and saying Plex should be "embarrassed" because people who doesn't understand how software works uses a random term like that, is overly dramatic.

It is not a random term, and I am well aware of how software works.


#16

@MikeG6.5 said:
This is, and has always been called a bug, for the 2+ years @beckfield and I have been around....

Thank you!


#17

MikeG6.5

They haven't been able to track it down, and every time they try something to fix it, it seems other portions of the agents appear to get broken.

So we keep Dancing the Dance


#18

Hey guys. There needs for doing the dance is not necessarily a bug. The refresh button does what its suppose to, just probably not what you expect. Refresh is to reload the downloaded data that was obtained for the appropriate agent. There isn't a method to reload a files embedded metadata. There idea is that the metadata in the file should be correct and Plex only needs to read it once, so once it's been added to the database, it shouldn't need to be changed. I understand this isn't always the case and people need to edit the data. Plex is aware of this and looking into the matter.


#19

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Hey guys. There needs for doing the dance is not necessarily a bug. The refresh button does what its suppose to, just probably not what you expect. Refresh is to reload the downloaded data that was obtained for the appropriate agent. There isn't a method to reload a files embedded metadata. There idea is that the metadata in the file should be correct and Plex only needs to read it once, so once it's been added to the database, it shouldn't need to be changed. I understand this isn't always the case and people need to edit the data. Plex is aware of this and looking into the matter.

A very interesting post and explains the _Dance _ in affect a integrity or a fresh rebuild of your Libraries data.

Refresh is to reload the downloaded data that was obtained for the appropriate agent.

So when a bug not a _bug_is the million dollar question.


#20

Not necessarily a bug, as a bug is not doing what it is supposed to. Refresh was never meant to reload a files embedded metadata. So to me, it's working as designed, just not your design. :-)