Origin of the "Plex Dance"

SE56 · October 27, 2016, 1:41am

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Not necessarily a bug, as a bug is not doing what it is supposed to. Refresh was never meant to reload a files embedded metadata. So to me, it’s working as designed, just not your design.

I never thought it was a bug, unfortunately a few did and have plastered me with plenty “WTF”. That’s ok, i really don’t care what they do
My statement," So when a bug not a _bug_is the million dollar question." I was just poking a bit fun.

So I will continue to Dance the Dance, Lol

anon18523487 · October 27, 2016, 2:26am

Cool. Don’t worry about the wtf’s. I’ve got 26 myself.

SE56 · October 27, 2016, 2:34am

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Cool. Don’t worry about the wtf’s. I’ve got 26 myself.

I know, thanks for input.

I must say Plex Media Server has been never better.

beckfield · October 27, 2016, 7:26pm

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Hey guys. There needs for doing the dance is not necessarily a bug. The refresh button does what its suppose to, just probably not what you expect. Refresh is to reload the downloaded data that was obtained for the appropriate agent. There isn’t a method to reload a files embedded metadata. There idea is that the metadata in the file should be correct and Plex only needs to read it once, so once it’s been added to the database, it shouldn’t need to be changed. I understand this isn’t always the case and people need to edit the data. Plex is aware of this and looking into the matter.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree. It doesn’t do what a user intuitively expects it to do, so it is a usability bug at the very least, as it violates the principle of least surprise.

Elijah_Baley · October 27, 2016, 7:43pm

I have to basically agree with @beckfield in that the “refresh” does not do what I expected it do do when I was first exposed to it.

I became a Plex user a few years ago and it was a least 4 months before I figured out that “refresh” did not “refresh” everything pertaining to what it was “refreshing.” Of course once I figured that “refresh” did not “refresh” everything I adopted the “Plex Dance” as standard practice for TV shows and movies when it seemed even remotely needed.

There is not a mechanism that does what the “Plex Dance” does from inside the server, but there should be. There should be an option under each level of “show” or “movie” info that refreshes everything from that point down. That is if it is chosen at the “season” level then the entire season should be refreshed as if the Plex Dance had been preformed on it but if it selected at the episode level then only that episode should be refreshed.

I doubt that we will see that added functionality but it would be good. The could even call the option “Plex Dance” and include a warning that any data associated with the object will be reset. It would save a LOT of questions and confusion on these boards.

blim5001 · October 27, 2016, 9:09pm

I agree with @Elijah_Baley and think there should be option within the server (to do the plex dance) especially with the forthcoming plex cloud, where (I assume) it becomes a bit more of a pain moving files in and out of the directories in cloud based storage

(I would add that I do not have an invite, so am not part of the beta, but I do have my own homebrew version of plex cloud using a dedicated server, and have found manually doing ‘the dance’ there is a bit more of a pain than doing it locally. As a workaround, I have got into the habit of using symlinks for folders that I add to plex so I can just remove those to do the ‘dance’ but I don’t see that being possible with plex cloud)

So we can but live in hope that Plex may consider this functionality

MikeG6.5 · October 27, 2016, 10:36pm

@Gdr56 said:

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Cool. Don’t worry about the wtf’s. I’ve got 26 myself.

I know, thanks for input.

I must say Plex Media Server has been never better.

Not going to argue the point that PMS has never been better. It’s better now than it was 2+ years ago. But what we have now isn’t what it could, or even should be. And I think that’s the point @beckfield is trying to raise. There are a whole slew of improvements and bug fixes that need to be worked on, BEFORE we get more clients to add to the mix, more features that aren’t fully implemented, or more half baked ideas that are just that. Half there, but not complete.

The fact that this issue is no longer considered a bug is shocking. I DO remember when it came about, but haven’t been able to find the specific posts, either. It does predate @MovieFan.Plex being an employee, though.

latweek · October 27, 2016, 10:45pm

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Cool. Don’t worry about the wtf’s. I’ve got 26 myself.

Elijah_Baley · October 27, 2016, 11:00pm

@latweek said:

@MovieFan.Plex said:
Cool. Don’t worry about the wtf’s. I’ve got 26 myself.

58 and counting. I rarely check but I decided to based on some posts here and in another thread. As I said in that other thread all the likes/dislikes/WTFs/ECT are simply homages to eloquence and the real negative ones are generally used by internet babies and their value is usually less than the value of the contents of the garments generally worn by babies.

astrofisher · October 28, 2016, 1:22am

Ok, so maybe not a bug per se, but I can agree with @beckfield in that this is annoying and there should be a better way.

Regarding the title of this thread:

I joined the forums to find solutions to a couple of issues I was having. This was one of them - I remember it was BigWheel who provided the solution I was looking for. So a search turned up two posts.

First post by BigWheel is the one I remember.

Second post is later by jmckee, but more closely resembles the current version of “The Dance”.

anon18523487 · October 28, 2016, 3:36am

@MikeG6.5 said:
The fact that this issue is no longer considered a bug is shocking. I DO remember when it came about, but haven’t been able to find the specific posts, either. It does predate @anon18523487 being an employee, though.

Plex does not consider how “Refresh” works as a bug, so it is unlikely it’s behavior will change. We are aware that people do want the ability to basically re-add an item as if it were brand new and we looking at how to do that. We get that doing the dance is not intuitive for some and hope to be able to find a way so it won’t be needed in the future.

brucethevideobug · October 28, 2016, 5:17am

The dance works, but no second date!

beckfield · October 28, 2016, 6:53am

@anon18523487 said:
Plex does not consider how “Refresh” works as a bug, so it is unlikely it’s behavior will change. We are aware that people do want the ability to basically re-add an item as if it were brand new and we looking at how to do that. We get that doing the dance is not intuitive for some and hope to be able to find a way so it won’t be needed in the future.

Actually, what so many people have been asking for is NOT a way to “re-add an item as if it were brand new.” What we’ve been asking for is for Plex to re-import changed metadata (whether it comes from embedded tags or online sources) the way people intuitively expect it to.

One of the posts astrofisher found:

https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/117964/reset-metadata-for-a-specific-series

Others:

MikeG6.5 · October 28, 2016, 7:15am

@MovieFan.Plex said:

@MikeG6.5 said:
The fact that this issue is no longer considered a bug is shocking. I DO remember when it came about, but haven’t been able to find the specific posts, either. It does predate @MovieFan.Plex being an employee, though.

Plex does not consider how “Refresh” works as a bug, so it is unlikely it’s behavior will change. We are aware that people do want the ability to basically re-add an item as if it were brand new and we looking at how to do that. We get that doing the dance is not intuitive for some and hope to be able to find a way so it won’t be needed in the future.

Plex seldom considers something a bug, that us users do. And I think that’s the issue with this particular problem. As @beckfield points out in his follow up post, there are a LOT of people with this issue, and want it to see if get fixed.

This should be a no brainier here. 21 different posts identifying there is a problem. The functionality of the current feature is obviously not working as the USERS want it to work. Regardless of how the Team perceives the issue, most of the USERS see it as a BUG!.

A lot of what the Team perceives as working as intended doesn’t work for your users. (Filters lacking blacklist support, anyone?) When is the Team going to see that WE know what we want. This “Dance” is a workaround that needs to be worked out of the way media and metadata are dealt with. As you say, it’s not intuitive. Hence it’s not “user friendly” and based on 21 different posts, not how your users expect the feature to work.

anon18523487 · October 28, 2016, 8:13am

@beckfield said:
Actually, what so many people have been asking for is NOT a way to “re-add an item as if it were brand new.” What we’ve been asking for is for Plex to re-import changed metadata (whether it comes from embedded tags or online sources) the way people intuitively expect it to.
Same thing. I guess I didn’t explain it right. Re-importing from embedded data or re-downloading from the online source, the end result is basically the same thing as if it were brand new. Either way, I think we are talking the same thing.

MikeG6.5 · October 28, 2016, 8:28am

@MovieFan.Plex said:

@beckfield said:
Actually, what so many people have been asking for is NOT a way to “re-add an item as if it were brand new.” What we’ve been asking for is for Plex to re-import changed metadata (whether it comes from embedded tags or online sources) the way people intuitively expect it to.
Same thing. I guess I didn’t explain it right. Re-importing from embedded data or re-downloading from the online source, the end result is basically the same thing as if it were brand new. Either way, I think we are talking the same thing.

But you aren’t talking the same thing, if you are saying this is working as intended and it’s not working as the users are expecting it to. We shouldn’t have to move the media out, empty trash and then move it back into the library to update metadata. It’s obvious to anyone that has used other products that how Plex does things isn’t fully functional.

But also as obvious, the reason the Dance still exists is because the Team doesn’t see that there is a problem with how their product functions with this “feature”. The “Dance” has become the “Feature”. And I guess we need to learn how to accept that, once again, what users are asking for isn’t a priority for the Team.

SE56 · October 28, 2016, 8:50am

@MikeG6.5 said:

@MovieFan.Plex said:

@beckfield said:
Actually, what so many people have been asking for is NOT a way to “re-add an item as if it were brand new.” What we’ve been asking for is for Plex to re-import changed metadata (whether it comes from embedded tags or online sources) the way people intuitively expect it to.
Same thing. I guess I didn’t explain it right. Re-importing from embedded data or re-downloading from the online source, the end result is basically the same thing as if it were brand new. Either way, I think we are talking the same thing.

But you aren’t talking the same thing, if you are saying this is working as intended and it’s not working as the users are expecting it to. We shouldn’t have to move the media out, empty trash and then move it back into the library to update metadata. It’s obvious to anyone that has used other products that how Plex does things isn’t fully functional.

But also as obvious, the reason the Dance still exists is because the Team doesn’t see that there is a problem with how their product functions with this “feature”. The “Dance” has become the “Feature”. And I guess we need to learn how to accept that, once again, what users are asking for isn’t a priority for the Team.

Unfortunately having a cheap software solution is not good enough, it must be perfect.

I’m ashamed at their actions, it’s truly not a reflection of most Plex users.

Refresh is not a rebuild, full stop.

So all the WTF please flow i will now know who.

SE56 · October 28, 2016, 9:19am

So it looks like there not asking for a_ refresh_ but a rebuild. Two different outcomes, i hope this will resolve there anger.

anon18523487 · October 28, 2016, 9:26am

@MikeG6.5 said:

@anon18523487 said:
Same thing. I guess I didn’t explain it right. Re-importing from embedded data or re-downloading from the online source, the end result is basically the same thing as if it were brand new. Either way, I think we are talking the same thing.
But you aren’t talking the same thing, if you are saying this is working as intended and it’s not working as the users are expecting it to. We shouldn’t have to move the media out, empty trash and then move it back into the library to update metadata. It’s obvious to anyone that has used other products that how Plex does things isn’t fully functional.

That was in regard to the feature that is desired, not the entire discussion.

beckfield · October 28, 2016, 3:39pm

@MovieFan.Plex said:

Same thing. I guess I didn’t explain it right. Re-importing from embedded data or re-downloading from the online source, the end result is basically the same thing as if it were brand new. Either way, I think we are talking the same thing.

No, it’s not the same thing. Re-adding as if it is new loses custom edits. Refreshing changed metadata doesn’t. Or shouldn’t, once it is actually being done. Each one of those links goes to posts where the user either expected refresh to recognize and update changed embedded tags and thinks the feature is broken, or is asking for that function. Many of them were directed, or figured out on their own, to do some version of the Plex Dance as a workaround for the broken/missing function.

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Origin of the "Plex Dance"

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